BURNING ATLANTA.com

          The Typical Bullshit Arguments          

And the consumer might get chicken a little cheaper if Joe Chicken passes along the savings.  But Joe Taxpayer picks up the tab. Because the costs of education, healthcare and crime by illegals far excedes any savings.

I have not an iota of sympathy for those lying slime that whine that they can't get labor.  You offer enough money and you can get all the labor you need, legally.

Here's another little point to ponder: If illegal immigrants were proven to be a net financial plus or deficit do you think that would change anybody's mind? I'm not so quick to sell out any sense of right and wrong over a dollar.

There are people that actually argue that massive immigration is a fabulous net asset to a country. Really? Well, if that's true then the best thing we could do for all these impoverished countries is to ship their nationals back home.

5. They only take jobs Americans won't do.
That's a total lie and everybody knows it. That BS, especially, doesn't fly with me because I worked some of those jobs. I worked as a construction laborer and commercial landscaper. I could push a mower with the best of them. I was, also, the suicide guy that trimmed hedges with bee's nests in them. That's a true art.  Yeah, I've heard some say they worked in the fields for years and never saw a gringo. If the farmer paid a good wage you'd see plenty of gringos.

There was a recent raid at a chicken plant in a small town in Georgia. The illegals that weren't arrested cleared out of town. The chicken plant that hired them had to go up on their wages to get more LEGAL employees. A girl quit her minimum wage Wal-Mart job and went to work at the chicken plant because she made a couple of dollars more per hour. EXCELLENT. That's the way the system should work.

I've got another little question for you: Who the hell do you think did all those jobs before the flood of cheap, ILLEGAL, labor?

6. A fence won't work.(Put more eyes, ears and boots on the border, that'll help)
I have very mixed feelings about a fence. Remember, the "fence" bill that just passed Congress doesn't just mean a physical barrier. They're talking cameras, ground sensors, etc.. And, "YES" fences can and do work. Look at the results reported from the San Diego area that say illegal crossing were down 95%. Look, also, at just enforcement in the Eagle Pass area of Texas where they've started a "Zero Tolerance" policy instead of catch and release. They report illegal crossing down by 70%. But keep your eye on those lying politicians. Just because it passed and may be signed by Bush doesn't mean it's going to be done. I have a gut feeling this was a "Look Tough" bill to try and convince the public they're REALLY serious this time. Then they'll try to sneak an amnesty thru. Don't trust them.
NPR piece

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double -- and in some places, triple -- fencing.

7. Only white republicans and racists oppose amnesties, guest worker plans, etc..
Funny thing. They, also, try to say that it's only white republicans that support a cheap labor force. Anyone that has watched this issue knows that's a total lie. This issue cuts across party and racial lines. Look at republicans such as Bush, McCain and Specter that support it. Then look at Sessions, Tancredo, Sensenbrenner, Isakson, etc.. that oppose it. Yeah, more dems are weak-kneed about it but that's nothing new. AND plenty of dems broke lock-step with their party over issues concerning illegal immigration. They're starting to pay attention to what they're hearing from their constituents. And the more the American public learns, the more pissed off they've become.

Want a really good read on illegal immigration? I quote this source all the time because it doesn't come from the "Right-wing haters." It doesn't come from those evil racist groups like the Minutemen. Nope, it comes from one of the paragons of the "Left-wing Progressive" movement. And I'm sure there've been plenty of people that I've quoted this to that have wet themselves in shock. Funny thing, I agree with about 95% of what this "Progressive" has to say. Does that mean I should put on a "Che" t-shirt and start singing "We are the World?"
Truthout

8. But lettuce will cost $5 per head.
Where do these people come from? I guess there are those that like to just talk out of their ass without having any basis in fact. Link

According to Philip E. Martin, Professor of Immigration and Farm Labor at the University of California, Davis, consumers who pay $1 for a head of lettuce are giving 19 cents to the farmer and 6 cents to the farm worker. If we doubled the wages of farm workers, the cost of a head of lettuce would increase by 6 cents to $1.06. For labor costs to force lettuce to $5 per head, farmers would have to pay field workers $4.06 per head of lettuce. At that rate, it would be the kind of work every American would want to do.

Illegal labor has little effect on prices. Seattle Times

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

9. We need a reasonable, humane and orderly immigration system.
                                                     

This, or similar, is the way the politicians and others like to try and frame the debate. Inferring that if you disagree then you're not reasonable, humane and you oppose an orderly immigration system. It's total bullshit and they know it. What's "reasonable" about a system that rewards people for ignoring our laws? What's "humane" about destroying our middle class and subjecting our children to over populated schools that have to spend increasing amounts of their budgets on bi-lingual education programs? What's orderly about a visa program that is responsible for letting 40% of illegal aliens into this country?

Speaking of which, have you heard anyone suggest a way to resolve the issue of jerks that use visas to gain entry then never leave? How about a bond on every person that enters by visa? Don't leave on time, lose your money. And that money goes to bounty hunters to find your ass. Got a better idea?

Guest worker plan? Ahh, "guest" implies they'll go home, eventually. But part of the Senate bill that dealt with that ALSO had some wording about earning citizenship status. Look up the Bracero Program sometime, it was a failure. And considering there are anywhere from 12-20 million illegals in this country, or more (nobody really knows) how many more "Guest workers" do we need?

Here's another little piece of news for you, we have MANY guest worker visa programs including the H2A for agricultural workers, and it DOESN'T have a cap! "We need a Guest Worker Program." BULLSHIT! What you want is CHEAP labor no matter what it cost the country. H2A

Classifications The Immigration and Nationality Act provides several categories of nonimmigrant visas for a person who wishes to work temporarily in the United States. There are annual numerical limits on some classifications which are shown in parentheses.
 H-1B classification applies to persons in a specialty occupation which requires the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge requiring completion of a specific course of higher education. This classification requires a labor attestation issued by the Secretary of Labor (65,000). This classification also applies to Government-to-Government research and development, or co-production projects administered by the Department of Defense (100);
 H-2A classification applies to temporary or seasonal agricultural workers; H-2B classification applies to temporary or seasonal nonagricultural workers. This classification requires a temporary labor certification issued by the Secretary of Labor (66,000);

Why does Maria Sanchez Kim Chung McSlovovitch Jones risk her life to illegally enter this country to download her baby? Because of that part of the 14th Amendment which automatically grants citizenship to any child born on U.S. soil. That incentive needs to be eradicated.

Those of us who are familiar with the law world--I served as a lawyer the best I could for a number of years, and I know Madam President is a lawyer--we know what Black's Law Dictionary is. It is a dictionary lawyers use to define words in their legal context. Black's Law Dictionary, as part of its definition of the word ``amnesty,'' says this:

The 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided amnesty for many undocumented aliens already present in the country.

Black's Law Dictionary, the final definition of legal words, says the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided amnesty for people here. It had conditions on it. It had some conditions on it; it just didn't have many conditions on it. So everybody recognizes it as basically amnesty, and that is why they called it that.

Again, I am not trying to use a code word here. What I am saying is there is a systematic effort in this body to redefine the definition of amnesty so they can tell their voters back home that although they opposed amnesty, this bill is not amnesty, and that is why they voted for it. That, unfortunately, I would have to say, is where we are.

What does the Democratic leader in the Senate, Senator HARRY REID, say about what amnesty is? Does he say that 1986 was amnesty and it had quite a few restrictions on the movement to full benefits of citizenship in the United States? This is what the Democratic leader says. This is what he said on September 20, 1993, when making a speech on the floor in the Senate; it is part of the Congressional Record. He said:

In 1986 we granted amnesty, and I voted against that provision in law. We granted amnesty to 3.2 million illegal immigrants. After being in this country for 10 years, the average amnesty recipient had a sixth-grade education, earned less than $6 an hour, and presently qualifies for the earned-income tax credit.

Some of the arguments I've heard are beyond belief and, no doubt, emanate from an alternative universe found only after consuming a nearly fatal dose of magic mushrooms.
11 a. Whinershave many arguments but they always involve some form of whining. Whining about being mean-spirited, divisive, inhumane, breaking up families,  the law is unjust, etc..  I really love the "Unjust" label.  You break into line, crash our borders, ignore our laws, including the felonies you committed by stealing IDs, using forged documents, etc.., but you say you're not a criminal and the laws are unjust in a country that allows more legal immigration than the rest of the world combined? Go pound sand. And the whiners like to pull out the old "What are you going to do, round them up and put them in cattle cars" argument. In areas where the laws are being enforced , the illegals are leaving....on their own.